Elephant in the lecture theatre

[rich_jacko]

So, the students are revolting (*snigger*), and quite rightly too.

But what no one is talking about - not the politicians, not the students, and certainly not the universities - is what seems to me to be the real reason why the fees for a 3-year degree have jumped from nothing to £27,000 in little more than a decade:

There are just too damn many people going to university these days.

Politicians of all parties are fixated on "widening participation", students love the opportunities, and universities love getting bigger and offering more courses to more people. Exhibit A: You only have to look at all the new buildings the University of Sheffield flings up every year to see how relentless the expansion is.

Of course, university is a wonderful opportunity and a great experience. Having more and more people go there is a lovely idea, but it just isn't practical.

Firstly, academia isn't for everyone. Some people's talents would be better focussed elsewhere (apprenticeships, anyone?) and other people simply aren't able to cope with the demands of it.

Secondly, whilst having a well-educated workforce is great, there's simply no need to have half the population be graduates. People will always be needed to work checkouts, answer phones, clean the streets and drive the buses, and you really don't need a degree to do any of those. Exhibit B: Look at the graduate unemployment figures.

Surely it would far better to have a much smaller proportion of teenagers going to university - say about a quarter of them instead than half? That way, there could be sustainable government funding for a smaller university sector, educating the brightest students who will get the most out of university, and who will end up in jobs where they can actually use what they've learned.

That's got to be better than having half a generation being 27 grand in debt before they even start their working lives.

Comments

[longrat.livejournal.com]

I see them using the 'market forces' to create a 3-tier system...

tier 1 - oxbridge (they were the ones on the brown panel anyway)

tier 2 - redbricks - charging 9K and running the full range of courses. attended by the bright and soon to be debt-ridden children of the lower orders and the not-so-bright but backed financially children of the upper orders...

tier 3 - polytechnics. lower price courses for the debt-shy. many courses funded (and content driven) by industry and basically career apprenticeship courses.

Hey ho. I'm stuck in tier 3 for the rest of my career - if I can keep my job that is....

[longrat.livejournal.com]

and how much of the 'graduate unemployment' is the result of shamelessly selling students 'media studies' (or similar) courses of dubious benefit to get bums on seats...

the start of the market economy - give the customer what they want, even if it's not what they WANTED after they got it

[tallbint.livejournal.com]

Although I agree that perhaps not all jobs require a degree, surely it is better to want to get a job that required a high level of skill rather than answering a telephone? Ian went to a school that expected the students to be factory workers or for the forces, and although both Ian and his older brother went to uni and achieved a degree, this was far from the norm and neither were encouraged to look at higher education at all.

This would lead to a huge split between people who can afford to go to uni and everyone else. Speaking as a parent, I want Emily and Thomas to aim for a job or vocation a little better than answering a telephone or cleaning the streets, not that these aren't important jobs, but they would not provide an income that would enable them to buy a house or do things like having nice holidays. I was a care worker for ten years,- I gave up this job which I loved as it paid minimum wage and did not allow me to even think about buying a house. I then went to uni, trained as a social worker (at my own cost in the days before you were paid to do this degree) and was able to buy a house due to this much higher paying job.

Perhaps the government should look instead at focusing degrees to the job market to enable students to gain a degree that might actually benefit them finding a job afterwards, in the way that social work and nursing do. Changing the emphasis would therefore provide a skilled workforce which could be matched to the areas where there are jobs.

[vampyrefate.livejournal.com]

I'm only half serious when I suggest that you try to convince your children that they want to work as electricians, plumbers or mechanics. None of these jobs require degrees, so they can avoid the debt trap. None of these jobs can easily be offshored to India or China.
Ok, none of these jobs sound glamourous, but there is a realistic option of going self employed after a few years. I've met a lot tradesmen that drive very flash cars and go on holidays to the far side of the world.

I heard once that at a recruitment fair an IT company was trying to attract new graduates to join up. They were losing recruits to the Gas Fitter on the next stall who said that althugh the basic wage was lower; he could offer so much overtime that a new starter could be earning like 80K a year.

[mathcathy]

Or perhaps, businesses should look at employing bright kids straight out of school and giving them on the job training so that the best paid jobs aren't perceived as being limited to graduates.

My expectation is that this is what will happen and that the universities will be the big losers, because the brightest kids - the ones who usually go on to PhDs and research - will be able to set out straight into industry. Businesses would be crazy not to look at the A-Level students who are in the top % intelligent/practical and who aren't keen on getting into debt and so someone is bound to start picking of the best 18 year olds - then everyone else will follow suit.

[vampyrefate.livejournal.com]

Web design.

[vampyrefate.livejournal.com]

We don't do manufacturing in the UK. You've been in Deutschland for too long.

[mathcathy]

Electricians, plumbers, gas-fitters, joiners, hairdressers, bakers, computer programmers, accountants ....

There are jobs which today have degree entry requirements which could perhaps be better taught "on the job" as it were.