Let old legends live
Jan. 8th, 2018 08:56 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
rich_jackoI've now seen The Last Jedi a second time, mused over it properly, and most people who care about it will have seen it at least once by now. Time to write up my more detailed views. Needless to say, this post contains major spoilers.
I said in my initial review that TLJ was a deeply frustrating film. It's certainly proved divisive. It's attracted possibly more bile from fans than any SW film since The Phantom Menace, while critics have acclaimed it. So what do I make of it?
Many of the reviews and articles I've read have praised the film for being a bold departure from previous SW films; its "time to let old things die" message breaking with the past and creating a bold new galaxy, where anyone is potentially a Jedi or a hero of the Rebellion, not just the special Skywalkers; and concluded that only whiny fanboys who can't stand the galaxy being saved by anyone other than white men don't like it.
Amazing. Every word of what I just said is wrong.
TLJ isn't radical. Almost all of its story beats are rehashed from The Empire Strikes Back, from the relentless pursuit of a fleeing Rebellion (My heart sank as I read the last part of the opening crawl), to the Jedi master in exile, to seeking help from an untrustworthy scoundrel. The throne room from Return of the Jedi and a dash of corporate war interest and old master turning up to save the day from Attack of the Clones are thrown in to shake it up a bit, but it's still old stories re-told. It's nowhere near as bad for this as The Force Awakens was, but it's still a waste. Return of the Jedi left Disney with a fresh slate to tell almost any story they wished, and they chose to re-tell the same old story. There are a handful of genuinely new and exciting bits, but this lack of originality (and the undermining of everything our heroes achieved in the original trilogy) is the main reason why, for me, the sequel trilogy is the weakest of the three trilogies so far (Your mileage may vary).
It feels like pointing out the obvious to say that the previous films are chock full of Force users and heroes who aren't Skywalkers, right down to the lowliest droid. Admittedly they're often supporting characters, but not always - Star Wars has always been an ensemble piece. It's not like the Skywalker family is particularly privileged anyway - their origins on a planet farthest from the bright centre of the universe could hardly be more humble. Luke is no less a character to identify with than Rey, just because his dad is Lord Vader and her parents were nobodies.
That particular revelation is perhaps one of the most divisive points of TLJ. It's a clever and genuinely surprising inversion of the classic "I am your father" twist. I must admit, from TFA I had Rey pegged as Luke's daughter. She looks a lot like Luke's mum, hiding her away from Snoke/Kylo would explain her apparent abandonment, and her connection to Luke's lightsaber with Luke's theme music blaring practically announced (in SW cinematic language) that was her parentage.
I don't mind being proved wrong. It's good to be surprised, and as a character moment it hit Rey hard at exactly the point when it needed to in the film. But this is perhaps one example of where (as I've also read) TLJ is a good movie, but a bad sequel. I had assumed that what "awakened" in TFA wasn't just Rey's connection with the Force, but some repressed Jedi training from her past. How else can we explain her instant ability to use the Force, not just in an instinctive, fast reflexes way like Anakin could, but using all the disciplined tricks of the Jedi - mind-reading, the controlling mind trick, telekinetically calling her lightsaber and, yes, making rocks float? All this within a matter of days. She hasn't even had the few years' practice and limited training that Luke had (He pointedly does not train her in how to use the Force in this film). Why would she feel affinity for that lightsaber or hear Obi-Wan calling her name?
I suppose this is an illustration of JJ Abrams just making stuff up with no idea of where it's going (This should not be a surprise for anyone who's seen Lost). See also: Who made that map to Luke Skywalker and why was it in pieces? Why did Artoo go in and out of stand-by mode? What's Snoke's backstory? Now, these unanswered questions may be problems with TLJ, or they may be problems with TFA. You decide.
I digress. Rey's parentage was an interesting development, as was all the stuff about letting old things die. But the critics have fundamentally misunderstood it. The film's message isn't that you should let the past die, killing it if you have to. Who says that? - two arch-villains and a resentful old hermit who's lost his way. Hardly the characters the audience is being asked to take life lessons from.
It's true that there's a message about not being held back by the past, and becoming your own person. Pupils grow beyond their teachers. But learning from the past, building on it rather than killing it, is how we move beyond. Those who fail to learn from the past are doomed to repeat its mistakes, as Rey does when she rushes off to face Kylo Ren, and as the whole of the neo-Nazi First Order is a great big, lumbering, overconfident example of. The greatest teacher, failure is.
The past also brings wisdom and inspiration. It's notable that Rey saves the ancient Jedi texts. The galaxy has faith in Leia, and she inspires the downtrodden everywhere to stand up and fight. And the legend of Luke Skywalker, Jedi Master, is what saves the day in the end and, as the final scene shows, is at least partly responsible for igniting the spark that relights the fire of rebellion.
This message, of both the good and bad from the past helping us grow and find our own way in life, is much cleverer and more complex than simply letting the past die. I'm surprised none of the reviews I've read have picked up on it.
Moving onto the whiny fanboys, this whiny fanboy is very happy to see such a diverse cast. It's one of the aspects this trilogy has got completely right where both the previous trilogies failed to varying extent (I'm told there are 63 seconds of non-Leia female dialogue in the entire original trilogy, and the prequels aren't much better). No, there are plenty of other, genuine complaints to be made about TLJ, some of which I've already covered.
By far the most serious problem is the Anti-Luke. We're supposed to accept that a character defined by his selflessness, his faith in the good in everyone (including pirates and Sith Lords), and his willingness to recklessly throw himself into the fray to help others, would try to murder his own nephew, then turn his back and hide on a rock for years when everyone needs him the most, just because he screwed up? Who does he think he is, Queen Elsa? And that "it was only for a second, like a fleeting shadow" excuse doesn't wash. It was a premeditated enough act that he decided to sneak up to Ben's bed, in the middle of the night, armed with a lightsaber.
I said in my review for The Force Awakens that one question Episode VIII needed to answer satisfactorily was why Luke would uncharacteristically go into hiding. It failed spectacularly. (Heck, I would have taken "because if the First Order are preoccupied with finding him, they'll have less time to bother everyone else".) I can forgive many of the film's other flaws, but not what they did with Luke. I've since read an interview with Mark Hamill in which he said he disagreed with almost every choice Rian Johnson and JJ Abrams made for the character. This makes me feel vindicated, but it's a hollow victory.
Aside from that, I dislike Poe's prank call to General Hux at the start. I know a lot of people love this, but for me it felt tonally wrong. SW has always had slightly stilted, melodramatic dialogue; that's just part of its style. Hux's pantomime villain performance takes that to extreme, and contrasting that with the very 21st Century lines from Poe and from Hux's subordinate ("I think he's tooling you, sir.") means the saga has descended into self-parody at this point.
There's a lot of wasted potential. What's the point in having all these droid characters if they never share a scene? There'd better be an almighty smackdown between BB-8 and BB-9E in Episode IX! Where are the Knights of Ren? Why send Finn and Rose off on a side quest if it achieves nothing? (Actually worse than nothing, since it leads to DJ revealing what the Rebel transports are up to to the First Order; I'm still not sure how he found out.)
And there should have been "a bad feeling about this" (or at least, a more clearly articulated one, even though it's nice that it's the first line - a TPM tribute?). And the film drags on at least half an hour too long. And Chewie and Artoo are largely ignored. And why is tracking ships through hyperspace a shocking new development when the Empire did it in A New Hope (admittedly using a tracking beacon)? And why is it that Holdo and Luke's sacrifices are to be admired, but when Finn tries the same thing it's bad? And etc, etc.
It's far from all negative. I'm getting the moaning over with in one go.
Despite its flaws, The Last Jedi is a rollercoaster ride of a blockbuster, while at the same time managing to be more character-driven than most of the other SW films. I liked the new characters such as Rose and Holdo. Already introduced characters had the space to grow. Most of the humour worked. I have no objections to thespace puffins Porgs, who were amusing for the most part. The film was packed with a wide variety of action sequences, which were all a whole load of fun. I did enjoy it. In the interest of bringing balance to the Force, after all that griping, here are 8 things I loved about Ep8:
1) Reylo: One advantage of there being no blood relationship between Rey and Ben is it allows for "will they/won't they?" sexual tension between them. After all, that would be wrong if they were related. *Ahem*. Both self-obsessed to begin with, I enjoyed their verbal sparring and how they helped each other's characters to grow. The battle of wills as each tried to turn the other to their point of view was well handled. I look forward to seeing how this plays out in the final film.
2) Poe screws up: I've said before that Poe Dameron was a bit of an Ace Rimmer character in TFA, awesome at everything and admired by everyone. So to see him mess up, and mess up badly, and have to learn from his mistakes and from the example set by others was probably the most interesting thing the filmmakers could have done with his character. It gave Leia a really strong role too, as his main counterpoint, which helps make TFA a good send-off for the late Carrie Fisher ("Our princess." *sniff*).
3) Holdo's sacrifice: A true hero, selfless, resilient, and uninterested in fame and glory. Poe learns a lot from Vice-Admiral Holdo's actions - another example of the film's message about learning from our elders being the only way to advance beyond them. Her kamikaze light-speed run itself is breathtaking. The white light, the silence, the impact - it's like nothing we've ever seen before. This is why I go to the cinema.
4) You can teach an old Force-wielder new tricks: More innovations in the shape of never-seen-before Force powers. Rey and Kylo's link has some lovely touches, including the rain and the touching of hands. Leia's floating through space has been unfairly maligned - It's great to finally see her actively using the Force, and in such a different, un-flashy way compared to the Jedi and Sith. Yoda's unique twist on "Force lightning" is comedy genius, puts Luke in his place and is very him. Luke's Force projection, by contrast, shows him to be a true Jedi Master, and is instrumental in saving the day.
5) Luke vs. Ben: Luke gets his mojo back, and his confrontation with his nephew is just about perfect in every way. I've already mentioned the Force projection, but the real treasure here is the meeting of these two Skywalkers on different paths. It's somewhat ironic that Luke is most like the Luke we know and love in the scene where he's not really there. His goodbye to Leia was touching too, and the (lack of) footprints in the salt was a clever touch as well.
6) Throne room smackdown: Rey and Kylo's scrap against the red guards was magnificent, almost matching the lightsaber battles of the prequels in spectacle and choreography. The added danger that the two main protagonists could turn on each other at any moment added to the tension.
7) Cinematography: In Rian Johnson, Disney have finally found a director who appreciates the camerawork of Star Wars and knows how to let a story play out within a frame. Gone are the jerky-cam and quick-fire edits of TFA and Rogue One. In their place, we have a welcome return to sweeping shots that show off the action rather than try to disguise it, which pan and evolve, almost telling a mini movie within themselves. The shot beginning with the shaking teacup, Jurassic Park-style, on Canto Bight is an obvious example, but there are many more.
8) The last scene: It was extremely Disney, but it worked for me (and yes, he definitely did Force-grab that broom!). A nobody in a forgotten corner of the galaxy, looking up to the sky and dreaming - He could be anything, including a future hope for the Rebellion. This scene isn't just Disney. What could be more Star Wars, or a more fitting tribute to Luke Skywalker?
The Force is still with us. Let's see what it brings us next....
I said in my initial review that TLJ was a deeply frustrating film. It's certainly proved divisive. It's attracted possibly more bile from fans than any SW film since The Phantom Menace, while critics have acclaimed it. So what do I make of it?
Many of the reviews and articles I've read have praised the film for being a bold departure from previous SW films; its "time to let old things die" message breaking with the past and creating a bold new galaxy, where anyone is potentially a Jedi or a hero of the Rebellion, not just the special Skywalkers; and concluded that only whiny fanboys who can't stand the galaxy being saved by anyone other than white men don't like it.
Amazing. Every word of what I just said is wrong.
TLJ isn't radical. Almost all of its story beats are rehashed from The Empire Strikes Back, from the relentless pursuit of a fleeing Rebellion (My heart sank as I read the last part of the opening crawl), to the Jedi master in exile, to seeking help from an untrustworthy scoundrel. The throne room from Return of the Jedi and a dash of corporate war interest and old master turning up to save the day from Attack of the Clones are thrown in to shake it up a bit, but it's still old stories re-told. It's nowhere near as bad for this as The Force Awakens was, but it's still a waste. Return of the Jedi left Disney with a fresh slate to tell almost any story they wished, and they chose to re-tell the same old story. There are a handful of genuinely new and exciting bits, but this lack of originality (and the undermining of everything our heroes achieved in the original trilogy) is the main reason why, for me, the sequel trilogy is the weakest of the three trilogies so far (Your mileage may vary).
It feels like pointing out the obvious to say that the previous films are chock full of Force users and heroes who aren't Skywalkers, right down to the lowliest droid. Admittedly they're often supporting characters, but not always - Star Wars has always been an ensemble piece. It's not like the Skywalker family is particularly privileged anyway - their origins on a planet farthest from the bright centre of the universe could hardly be more humble. Luke is no less a character to identify with than Rey, just because his dad is Lord Vader and her parents were nobodies.
That particular revelation is perhaps one of the most divisive points of TLJ. It's a clever and genuinely surprising inversion of the classic "I am your father" twist. I must admit, from TFA I had Rey pegged as Luke's daughter. She looks a lot like Luke's mum, hiding her away from Snoke/Kylo would explain her apparent abandonment, and her connection to Luke's lightsaber with Luke's theme music blaring practically announced (in SW cinematic language) that was her parentage.
I don't mind being proved wrong. It's good to be surprised, and as a character moment it hit Rey hard at exactly the point when it needed to in the film. But this is perhaps one example of where (as I've also read) TLJ is a good movie, but a bad sequel. I had assumed that what "awakened" in TFA wasn't just Rey's connection with the Force, but some repressed Jedi training from her past. How else can we explain her instant ability to use the Force, not just in an instinctive, fast reflexes way like Anakin could, but using all the disciplined tricks of the Jedi - mind-reading, the controlling mind trick, telekinetically calling her lightsaber and, yes, making rocks float? All this within a matter of days. She hasn't even had the few years' practice and limited training that Luke had (He pointedly does not train her in how to use the Force in this film). Why would she feel affinity for that lightsaber or hear Obi-Wan calling her name?
I suppose this is an illustration of JJ Abrams just making stuff up with no idea of where it's going (This should not be a surprise for anyone who's seen Lost). See also: Who made that map to Luke Skywalker and why was it in pieces? Why did Artoo go in and out of stand-by mode? What's Snoke's backstory? Now, these unanswered questions may be problems with TLJ, or they may be problems with TFA. You decide.
I digress. Rey's parentage was an interesting development, as was all the stuff about letting old things die. But the critics have fundamentally misunderstood it. The film's message isn't that you should let the past die, killing it if you have to. Who says that? - two arch-villains and a resentful old hermit who's lost his way. Hardly the characters the audience is being asked to take life lessons from.
It's true that there's a message about not being held back by the past, and becoming your own person. Pupils grow beyond their teachers. But learning from the past, building on it rather than killing it, is how we move beyond. Those who fail to learn from the past are doomed to repeat its mistakes, as Rey does when she rushes off to face Kylo Ren, and as the whole of the neo-Nazi First Order is a great big, lumbering, overconfident example of. The greatest teacher, failure is.
The past also brings wisdom and inspiration. It's notable that Rey saves the ancient Jedi texts. The galaxy has faith in Leia, and she inspires the downtrodden everywhere to stand up and fight. And the legend of Luke Skywalker, Jedi Master, is what saves the day in the end and, as the final scene shows, is at least partly responsible for igniting the spark that relights the fire of rebellion.
This message, of both the good and bad from the past helping us grow and find our own way in life, is much cleverer and more complex than simply letting the past die. I'm surprised none of the reviews I've read have picked up on it.
Moving onto the whiny fanboys, this whiny fanboy is very happy to see such a diverse cast. It's one of the aspects this trilogy has got completely right where both the previous trilogies failed to varying extent (I'm told there are 63 seconds of non-Leia female dialogue in the entire original trilogy, and the prequels aren't much better). No, there are plenty of other, genuine complaints to be made about TLJ, some of which I've already covered.
By far the most serious problem is the Anti-Luke. We're supposed to accept that a character defined by his selflessness, his faith in the good in everyone (including pirates and Sith Lords), and his willingness to recklessly throw himself into the fray to help others, would try to murder his own nephew, then turn his back and hide on a rock for years when everyone needs him the most, just because he screwed up? Who does he think he is, Queen Elsa? And that "it was only for a second, like a fleeting shadow" excuse doesn't wash. It was a premeditated enough act that he decided to sneak up to Ben's bed, in the middle of the night, armed with a lightsaber.
I said in my review for The Force Awakens that one question Episode VIII needed to answer satisfactorily was why Luke would uncharacteristically go into hiding. It failed spectacularly. (Heck, I would have taken "because if the First Order are preoccupied with finding him, they'll have less time to bother everyone else".) I can forgive many of the film's other flaws, but not what they did with Luke. I've since read an interview with Mark Hamill in which he said he disagreed with almost every choice Rian Johnson and JJ Abrams made for the character. This makes me feel vindicated, but it's a hollow victory.
Aside from that, I dislike Poe's prank call to General Hux at the start. I know a lot of people love this, but for me it felt tonally wrong. SW has always had slightly stilted, melodramatic dialogue; that's just part of its style. Hux's pantomime villain performance takes that to extreme, and contrasting that with the very 21st Century lines from Poe and from Hux's subordinate ("I think he's tooling you, sir.") means the saga has descended into self-parody at this point.
There's a lot of wasted potential. What's the point in having all these droid characters if they never share a scene? There'd better be an almighty smackdown between BB-8 and BB-9E in Episode IX! Where are the Knights of Ren? Why send Finn and Rose off on a side quest if it achieves nothing? (Actually worse than nothing, since it leads to DJ revealing what the Rebel transports are up to to the First Order; I'm still not sure how he found out.)
And there should have been "a bad feeling about this" (or at least, a more clearly articulated one, even though it's nice that it's the first line - a TPM tribute?). And the film drags on at least half an hour too long. And Chewie and Artoo are largely ignored. And why is tracking ships through hyperspace a shocking new development when the Empire did it in A New Hope (admittedly using a tracking beacon)? And why is it that Holdo and Luke's sacrifices are to be admired, but when Finn tries the same thing it's bad? And etc, etc.
It's far from all negative. I'm getting the moaning over with in one go.
Despite its flaws, The Last Jedi is a rollercoaster ride of a blockbuster, while at the same time managing to be more character-driven than most of the other SW films. I liked the new characters such as Rose and Holdo. Already introduced characters had the space to grow. Most of the humour worked. I have no objections to the
1) Reylo: One advantage of there being no blood relationship between Rey and Ben is it allows for "will they/won't they?" sexual tension between them. After all, that would be wrong if they were related. *Ahem*. Both self-obsessed to begin with, I enjoyed their verbal sparring and how they helped each other's characters to grow. The battle of wills as each tried to turn the other to their point of view was well handled. I look forward to seeing how this plays out in the final film.
2) Poe screws up: I've said before that Poe Dameron was a bit of an Ace Rimmer character in TFA, awesome at everything and admired by everyone. So to see him mess up, and mess up badly, and have to learn from his mistakes and from the example set by others was probably the most interesting thing the filmmakers could have done with his character. It gave Leia a really strong role too, as his main counterpoint, which helps make TFA a good send-off for the late Carrie Fisher ("Our princess." *sniff*).
3) Holdo's sacrifice: A true hero, selfless, resilient, and uninterested in fame and glory. Poe learns a lot from Vice-Admiral Holdo's actions - another example of the film's message about learning from our elders being the only way to advance beyond them. Her kamikaze light-speed run itself is breathtaking. The white light, the silence, the impact - it's like nothing we've ever seen before. This is why I go to the cinema.
4) You can teach an old Force-wielder new tricks: More innovations in the shape of never-seen-before Force powers. Rey and Kylo's link has some lovely touches, including the rain and the touching of hands. Leia's floating through space has been unfairly maligned - It's great to finally see her actively using the Force, and in such a different, un-flashy way compared to the Jedi and Sith. Yoda's unique twist on "Force lightning" is comedy genius, puts Luke in his place and is very him. Luke's Force projection, by contrast, shows him to be a true Jedi Master, and is instrumental in saving the day.
5) Luke vs. Ben: Luke gets his mojo back, and his confrontation with his nephew is just about perfect in every way. I've already mentioned the Force projection, but the real treasure here is the meeting of these two Skywalkers on different paths. It's somewhat ironic that Luke is most like the Luke we know and love in the scene where he's not really there. His goodbye to Leia was touching too, and the (lack of) footprints in the salt was a clever touch as well.
6) Throne room smackdown: Rey and Kylo's scrap against the red guards was magnificent, almost matching the lightsaber battles of the prequels in spectacle and choreography. The added danger that the two main protagonists could turn on each other at any moment added to the tension.
7) Cinematography: In Rian Johnson, Disney have finally found a director who appreciates the camerawork of Star Wars and knows how to let a story play out within a frame. Gone are the jerky-cam and quick-fire edits of TFA and Rogue One. In their place, we have a welcome return to sweeping shots that show off the action rather than try to disguise it, which pan and evolve, almost telling a mini movie within themselves. The shot beginning with the shaking teacup, Jurassic Park-style, on Canto Bight is an obvious example, but there are many more.
8) The last scene: It was extremely Disney, but it worked for me (and yes, he definitely did Force-grab that broom!). A nobody in a forgotten corner of the galaxy, looking up to the sky and dreaming - He could be anything, including a future hope for the Rebellion. This scene isn't just Disney. What could be more Star Wars, or a more fitting tribute to Luke Skywalker?
The Force is still with us. Let's see what it brings us next....
no subject
Date: 2018-01-09 02:36 pm (UTC)The exact sequence of events surrounding the Luke/Kylo "incident" is unclear, but it's entirely possible that Luke used to have his lightsabre clipped to his belt most of the time. Having felt the
whinynessanger in Kylo and worrying about his future, one night he goes to see him as he sleeps... to try and feel the balance of the force within him, or something like that, gets his force vision about Kylo going to the dark side, and Luke's own impulsive, reckless, dark-side-flavoured side comes out for just a second, and the rest is history.You point out that Luke's training was limited, but I think that understates the situation quite badly. Luke was an astonishinly poorly-trained Jedi. I mean, Anakin didn't start training 'til he was 9, and that was considered "too old" by the Jedi council. Luke didn't start 'til he was 18. 18! Then he got at most a handful of lessons from Obi-Wan on the Falcon on the trip from Tattooine to Alderaan, and then a few months from Yoda on Dagobah before he left prematurely without even completing whatever crash-course Yoda was trying to get into him before he ran off to face Vader, and... that was it. Sure, Obi-Wan and Yoda's force ghosts might have been able to help a bit more with the wisdom and meditation over the years, but force ghosts probably aren't that good at actually teaching the ways of the force, otherwise we'd probably have seen more ghosts (rather than live Jedi) teaching the younglings in the Jedi Academy in the prequels.
Sure, Luke was able to turn his father, but that's because his father was ready to be turned by Luke. From the end of ESB, we know that what Vader wants is to be reunited with Luke, working together. Yes, ruling the galaxy together, but that's just becuase that's what Vader sees his future as. When Luke tells Vader in RTJ "Come with me. [...] I feel the conflict within you, let go of your hate." Vader's reply (while they are alone, away from the Emperor) is a regretful "It is too late for me, son.". Not "I don't want to." or "I like the hate, it's the source of my power.", but "it's too late". Vader wants to be with his son, and is ready to turn back.
Kylo, on the other hand, is not ready to be turned back, and especially not by Luke. His fear of and anger at Luke is the reason he turned to begin with. That's not to say that Kylo can't be turned. I think it's possible that Rey could turn him back (if the two of them don't figure out some non-Jedi/Sith/Light Side/Dark Side path of their own) given time, but Kylo's feelings for Luke mean that he can't be turned by Luke.
I find it entirely plausible that there is literally nothing Luke can do to make that situation better, and he knows it. He screwed up, as big as it's possible to screw up, and the person he screwed up is his nephew, the son of his sister and his best friend in the galaxy, and he can't fix it. Running to the other side of the galaxy to hide in shame for the next few years is an entirely plausible (impulsive, reckless) response to that. As is being absolutely convinced in his own head, beyond a shadow of doubt, that he is not the hero that everyone else thinks he is.
no subject
Date: 2018-01-09 10:05 pm (UTC)Even if we go with that version of the "incident" (which feels like a stretch), Luke's behaviour still comes across as creepy and wrong. He'd surely get a far better sense of Ben's intentions by watching his behaviour and sensing the flow of his thoughts when he was awake. And if he was worried his nephew was starting to tread down the dark path, he'd do everything he could to help. A sleeping teen is no immediate danger and I simply cannot believe Luke would think of murdering him in his sleep, not even for a second.
We'll never know. Having heard from both characters who were there, I doubt the films will spend any more time looking back at that incident.
I agree that Vader and Kylo's situations are different. Vader desperately wants to be reunited with his family, more than anything. He even persuades the Emperor to let him try to do just that. I agree Vader is ready to turn back when Kylo isn't. But I don't agree that Luke wouldn't try. We've seen that Kylo is riddled with doubt, and I don't think Luke was merely stalling for time when he told him he'd be haunted by his actions - he's laying the groundwork.
Luke runs towards his problems, not away from them. Abandoning Han and Leia is almost even more uncharacteristic than turning on his nephew.
The training point - yes. Luke's training was pretty minimal, and it shows. Even by Return of the Jedi, his skills fall a long way short of a fully trained Jedi, and that's after years of honing them. Rey moves beyond him after what, less than a week with absolutely zero training? I get the real world reason for that (upping the power level to try to keep it exciting), but I struggle to find an in-universe justification.
There were no Force ghosts at the time of the prequels BTW. Qui-Gon was the first, so far as the Jedi were aware.
no subject
Date: 2018-01-09 11:36 pm (UTC)Yes, he typically runs towards his problems, but what if he believes he is the problem? That's he's not the all-powerful Wise Jedi Master with the plan to defeat the First Order that everyone else thinks he is? That having everyone else waiting for him, wondering when he'll show up, relying on him to appear and save the day for them (which TFA and TLJ both point out is the actual case), makes them worse off than figuring out that they have to stand on their own two feet and come up with a solution themselves?
With that sort of perspective, and some really fresh self-loathing thrown into the mix, I can square that with the Luke from the original trilogy.
Yes, Rey's force skills are off. Her natural strength in the force I can buy, but her level of finesse with it doesn't match what we already understand about how the need for force training works. It bugs me too.
I didn't spot that Qui-Gon was the first force ghost. I didn't realise he was quite so powerful a Jedi, to have been the one to have discovered such an immensely powerful... power.
no subject
Date: 2018-01-10 06:57 pm (UTC)Sure, Luke and Obi-Wan are different characters with very different backgrounds. But even if you can accept that Luke would act that way (which I think we'll have to agree to disagree on), it casts the central hero of the original trilogy in a very poor light.
Also, Luke changes his mind, seemingly once he realises the danger Leia is in. You'd have thought that, between them, Leia, Han, Chewie, Artoo, Yoda and Obi-Wan would have been able to talk sense into him a long time ago.
I think Qui-Gon becoming a Force ghost was more to do with his awareness of "the Living Force" than him being particularly powerful as a Jedi. Even then, he could only manifest as a voice, because his body didn't transition into the Force when he died.
I tend to forget how little of this is in the films. None of the Jedi who die in the prequels fade away (including Qui-Gon). Vader seems perplexed by Obi-Wan's disappearance in Ep4, which would otherwise be odd for someone who's seen an awful lot of Jedi deaths in his time (and been the cause of more than a few). There's a scene near the end of Ep3 where Yoda tells Obi-Wan that Qui-Gon has "learned the path to immortality" and he will teach Obi-Wan "how to commune with him".
There was meant to be more than that, but Liam Neeson was either unavailable or didn't want to do it at the time. He did eventually come back for the Clone Wars cartoon series, where they explored it a bit further.